Rockies ditched Moyer today
Today the Rockies did what was inevitable: designate Jamie Moyer for assignment. This means that Moyer’s time with the Rockies is over. A team could claim him on waivers, if they so choose, and work a trade with the Rockies. If no one claims him he could go to AAA or opt to “retire”. Again. Most likely this is the last we have seen from Moyer. There aren’t many teams willing to give a roster spot to a guy who is nearly 50 and can’t throw harder than 80 mph.
Here is a great tweet from Jayson Stark on Moyer:
If this is it for Jamie Moyer, he’ll wind up 35th all-time in wins, 40th in innings, 16th in games started & 1st in “Oldest Since..” notes!
And another one from Rany Jazayerli:
I still think that Jamie Moyer could put up a sub-4 ERA in Petco Park. That doesn’t mean the Padres should sign him.
That sentiment is what some teams will certainly think. Why take a chance on a guy who is way over the hill when they could just try any number of younger guys and see what they have to offer? Any team in contention will not even consider Moyer, even the Philadelphia Phillies, whom Moyer pitched for before the Rockies in 2010, who just put their stud pitcher Roy Halladay on the DL for the next 6-8 weeks.
As noted on this space many times: Moyer was not going to succeed because he allows too many fly balls and his 1.8 homers per nine innings pitched is exactly what was expected by everyone except Dan O’Dowd. Apparently.
Rockies record same as when Clint Hurdle was fired
- In 2009 the Rockies were 18-28 when they fired Clint Hurdle.
- Right now in 2012 the Rockies are 19-29 and that record is only so “good” because they swept the doubleheader from the Houston Astros on Monday. Going into Monday the Rockies were 17-29.
- In 2008 after the Rockies went to the World Series in 2007 their record was 74-88.
- In 2011 the Rockies were 73-89.
- Going into Monday’s action the Rockies were three games WORSE by record over the same number of games spanning over a year’s action than when the Rockies decided to fire Hurdle.
- Why is Jim Tracy safe?
- Well, O’Dowd and the Rockies did settle with Hurdle from 2002-2006 in which his record was 352-436 for a .447 winning percentage.
I guess Rockies fans can expect another few years of Tracy because this organization does not hire or retain people for performance.
I HATE THIS PICTURE!
Troy Tulowitzki bunting
If you follow me on Twitter you know I like to tweet that a kitten dies every time Carlos Gonzalez or Troy Tulowitzki attempts a bunt and if they are successful in laying down a bunt then a puppy dies (I like puppies better so I don’t want to see as many of them die for such a stupid reason).
When Tulo laid down a bunt on Monday night here are some of his stats spanning the month of May going into that second game: .295/.380/.523 with five home runs (all in the last 10 games), nine extra base hits and only nine strikeouts in 100 plate appearances. I can guarantee that any opposing manager would love to see Tulo lay down a bunt and Brad Mills of the Astros was no exception.
Lay down a bunt whenever you want Tulo, opposing teams will gladly give you one bag as opposed to four.
Very little positive in sight
I have been asked more than a few times recently what the Rockies can do to get better. Answer? Not much. This team is so far away from being good there isn’t one position or one player that the team could bring in to make them better. The pieces this team does have aren’t valuable so they cannot make a trade, either.
I have seen two ridiculous suggestions on twitter recently: one being that the Rockies should go after Roy Oswalt and two being that they should resign Jason Marquis. No way Oswalt signs here, why would he? At this point in time no player in baseball wants to play in Denver. Why would they? Playoffs definitely aren’t happening. As for Marquis he just isn’t any good anymore and bringing in another pitcher way over the hill and past him prime doesn’t do the team any good.
At this point, much like last year, the team needs to let the kids play and see if any of them are any good. Unfortunately O’Dowd and Tracy will continue to use Marco Scutaro instead of Eric Young Jr. or DJ LeMahieu at second. They will continue to use Jeremy Guthrie on the mound instead of bring up Tyler Chatwood and letting him go.
Guys like Nolan Arenado are ready but he certainly isn’t going to change the Rockies fortune in 2012. Past Arenado there isn’t anyone in the minor leagues ready for the major’s and no one would certainly make a big impact on the team.
It is going to be a long season and most likely going to be a long 2013, too.
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26 comments
Anonymous
May 30, 2012 at 6:23 PM (UTC -6)
Why the preference for Young Jr over Scutaro? Just wondering….
Travis Lay
May 30, 2012 at 6:29 PM (UTC -6)
It isn’t so much that EY2 is great, but Scutaro has proved to be nothing special. How many bonehead/awful defensive plays has he made this year? His OBP is awful and certainly doesnt deserve to bat 2nd (he lives off some mythical reputation of “being able to move runners” or whateverthecrap). EY2 isn’t an outfielder and he very well might not be a 2B, but let’s see if he is or not.
Anonymous
May 30, 2012 at 7:03 PM (UTC -6)
This was written by Andrew in the last thread and I think it sums it up pretty well……..
“I never understood why the Rockies abandoned EYJ at second. In 2010, in 250+ innings at second, he graded out slightly above average in UZR, total fielding runs above average, and every other advanced defensive metric I could find. Try and move Scutaro for a mid-level prospect and plug in EY at second every day. Nelson, Herrera, and LeMahieu are all utility/bench players in the future.”
Add in EYJs speed, age, and how he has contributed this year I think he has earned it. If Scutaro was producing this may be different but it’s pretty obvious that the guy is a replacement level player at this point. The Rockies should use the rest of this season to figure out what they have and what they need to address in the off season. That means evaluating Dexter/EYJ/Pacheco/Nelson and all of the young pitchers. I personally think EYJ has earned this first crack at 2B.
JD
May 31, 2012 at 9:52 AM (UTC -6)
The question should be “why Scutaro over Young?” The reverse is obvious – develop your young guy for the future.
TroyF
May 30, 2012 at 7:44 PM (UTC -6)
I’m writing two posts back to back here, the first is in response to your post, the second will be a quick review of the game in Tulsa I went to on Monday.
I’m a little stunned about the Moyer thing. Accountability in this organizaiton? It was about time. It needed to happen. Between that and actually not hitting Dexter 8th, I’m shocked Tracy is actually doing some smart things for once in his life.
Of course, Dexter should be hitting fifth, not 1st. Dexter should also not be bunting after ripping the cover off the ball an entire day, but I can’t ask for a miracle here.
The pitching just sucks, but it isn’t going to get better with Moyer throwing.
While I would dream of a hot streak here, I know this team sucks. It isn’t getting better anytime soon. Let the kids play and see what happens.
TroyF
May 30, 2012 at 8:11 PM (UTC -6)
I went to the Drillers game on Monday. They played Midland (AA for the A’s)
It was a very ugly game featuring 21 strikeouts, 12 walks, 10 hits and 3 total runs in 10 full innings.
The Drillers started off the game well. Rutledge walked and stole second. He was driven in by an Arenado single up the middle. Sadly, that’s where the offense stopped. They would not have another hit until a seeing eye single in the bottom of the tenth inning.
Midland had many, many chances to score in the game, but could only muster a sac fly to tie the game in the 5th. They left 11 men on base, went 0-5 with runners in scoring postion, hit into a double play and got caught stealing. Drillers pitchers were pitching out of jams all night. It finally fell apart in the tenth.
Joey Williamson came on. He promptly did this:
Walk
Strikeout
Walk
Strikeout
Walk
Passed Ball (could have been a wild pitch from my view)
pop out to center.
The three walks gave Midland a run, the Drillers had a hit in the tenth. The hitter was erased on a game ending double play.
Here are my thoughts on individuals:
Arenado – 1-4, 1K, 1 RBI. Hit the ball fairly well. In the 8th, with the game on the line and runners on, he hit a rocket to RF. Got under it a little and it ended up being a fly out. Only had to make one defensive play, he fielded a slow roller and made a solid throw to first for the out.
Todd Rutledge – 0-2, 1 BB, 1 Run, 1 SB. He had a nice game. Took a lot of pitches, seems like a scrappy player. Not sure what his future is, but he looked ok.
Tim Torres – 0-4, 4 strikeouts. Obviously not a prospect, but after watching that performence, I have to wonder why he even had a job. 29 year olds at AA should be better than that.
Warren Schaefer – 0-4. Played a decent short, but this guy cannot hit. I mean, he really cannot hit. He hit into the double play to end the game and I wondered why he was given the chance. Man on first, 1 out, Rutledge due up next, why do you let your .143 hitter hit? Also, you don’t have a bench player who is better?
Dan Houston – Looked solid, but he really should have given up more runs. Very lucky to get out of it with only 1 allowed.
Jeremy Barfield (Midland) – Didn’t have a hit, but I loved this kid. Good arm. Sadly, he seems to want to hit every pitch out of the park. I thought his eye was fairly good. If he learns to cut down on his swing, he will be a fourth outfielder in the majors. (note, he is the son of Jesse Barfield)
Leonardo Gil (Midland) Third baseman. The kid can rake. Again, not sure of his future, but he has a solid stroke.
Ballpark: Nice park with a good view of Tulsa and trains running in the background. Obviously, day games get very hot and humid, bring your sunscreen. The ball does not carry in this park. Not even a little bit. Fly balls simply die in this park. one of the Midland guys hit an absolute bomb that went foul to RF. It barely would have cleared the 307 sign had it been fair.
Travis Lay
May 30, 2012 at 8:33 PM (UTC -6)
Thanks for that post! Love hearing about the kids.
Pete
May 30, 2012 at 10:58 PM (UTC -6)
It has been apparent for a few starts now that Moyer’s usefullness to the Rox is at an end. I think we got as much out of him as we could and he pitched well enough for us in April/early May that he was a pretty big help. I haven’t seen the last few games, but the pitching in general needs to improve drastically just to get up to horrible. We can’t throw strikes!!!! And I don’t mean one or two guys, the whole freakin’ staff seems to be wild at times. Gutherie has been a huge disappointment not just in his pitching, but the lack of leadership and maturity. He needs to go out there and mix up pitches, hit spots, keep hitters off balance and throw strikes from start to finish. These young guys need to be able to talk to guys in their own dugout for advice and look for role models, not wonder how the other teams manage to throw strikes all the time. Throw strikes, get ahead – stay ahead, corners and knees, high and tight…low and away. Seriously, why are we promoting young pitchers up to the Rockies when they can’t pitch yet? Half of them are just throwers, I’ve seen better efforts at the high school level. I’m not talking about just White and Friedrich, Nacasio seems to have lost command, obviously Chacin, the relievers……ugh. Get better guys……please. If Apodaca can’t get it done, I’m available…sheesh.
TroyF
May 31, 2012 at 7:17 AM (UTC -6)
So just throw I high, low, paint the black and everything is fine, right?
You do realize that these kids are just getting things figured out, right? Between the three we have now (White, Freidrich, Nicasio) they have combined for under 50 big league starts between them. For kicks, take a look at the mortals (forget Strausberger and guys of his ilk) and tell me what you se out of 25 and under starters in the bigs.
Hint for you, it ain’t pretty. In fact, it is quite ugly.
I do not like Ap at all, but it does not matter who the pitching coach s now, the kids are going to be kids. That means gigantic swings of inconsistency, even from inning to inning, much less game to game. That is why the Rockies need to call up Chatwood and Pomeranz. Just let the kids play.
That goes for the hitters as well. Dexter should have been playing daily and not hitting 8th ever. His OBP was solid. . . Just stick with him. Now Tracy is acting like he is a genius because he hit him8th and Dex has started to hit. News flash for you Jim, you did not do anything with Tull either and he came out of it. Your problem was and s hitting your horrific 2b at the top of the order.
Dennis
May 31, 2012 at 7:05 AM (UTC -6)
I like TroyJ’s comment about batting Dexter 5th. If I remember correctly, Bill James, in one of his pieces on batting order, concluded that the 5th spot had the best statistical chance of leading off the second inning.
JD
May 31, 2012 at 9:53 AM (UTC -6)
I don’t want to encourage Dex to swing for the fences by batting him fifth, and also, who bats leadoff then?
TroyF
May 31, 2012 at 10:53 AM (UTC -6)
It isn’t encouraging Dex to swing for the fences. He is who he is. He’s hit better with men on base and worse leadoff his entire career. The averages aren’t just skewed by one year or a small sample size. He simply hits better with men on base. Let him do it.
Logan Burdine
May 31, 2012 at 11:26 AM (UTC -6)
That’s true to a degree, but he still gets on base at about .350 without anyone on. So, while it’s true he puts up better numbers with guys on base, I’m not sure that means he should be moved out of the lead off spot. Who do you put in his place? Scutaro? I still think it is more important to have guys setting the table for Carlos and Tulo. With Troy out, people are about to start pitching around CarGo, so it becomes even more important that they don’t have a place to put him. Putting Dex fifth means taking the bat out of the hands of the team’s third most valuable hitter and it means decreasing the OBP in front of the heart of the lineup.
TroyF
May 31, 2012 at 11:58 AM (UTC -6)
I’m not saying I have all the answers, all I know is I want the guy who is hitting .370 with runners in scoring position to hit with runners on base more often. Even before this year, he hit far better with men on base and with RISP. Throw Young at second and let Pacheco hit second, maybe let Helton hit second and hope he can concentrate on blooping balls in.
I don’t know, I just know Dex has crushed the daylights out of the ball for two years now with men on base. (including a ridiculous .470 OBP during that time) I want him hitting with men on base more. If this guy were built like a tank and had average speed, nobody on earth would look at his numbers and say he should be batting leadoff. his size and speed are the only reasons people view him that way. I’d rather go by the numbers in a case like this.
In any case, the position of the batting order doesn’t really have a huge impact on games, it’s just my viewpoint, nothing more.
Logan Burdine
May 31, 2012 at 12:07 PM (UTC -6)
It does tend to be overrated. Personally, I just like the idea of getting him as many ABs as possible, which is what happens when he leads off. I also like the idea of putting Todd in the 2 hole, but it will never ever happen with this manager. That’s just too far outside the box.
If you wanted to put EY at second and bat him first, I’d be okay with that. They could fill in the 2 hole with Cuddyer or Helton and let Dex hit fifth. That would definitely be a better lineup than what Tracy has been putting out there most of the season. One thing is for certain, Scutaro has no business being at the top of the batting order. Right now, he has the lowest wOBA and wRC+ on the team (at least 50 ABs). That includes Jonathan Herrera.
Pete
May 31, 2012 at 10:05 AM (UTC -6)
Sorry Troy, but I don’t agree. Young pitchers can be ready when they come up and ours aren’t. Bringing up more young arms and just letting them play will kill our chances for the next several years, see Pittsburgh and KC.
The best example comes from our hated rival, San Fran. A few years ago they brought up several young pitchers, among them Jonathon Sanchez. All the talent and stuff in the world and he never learned to throw it over the plate and pitch ahead. They shipped him to KC and brought up Bumgarner. What a difference, the kid throws strikes, works ahead and wins games. It can be done and can be taught. The hated Dodgers have been doing this in their system for years. Kershaw has great stuff, but he also has better command than our kids, including his secondary stuff. Jaime Garcia for StL is probably a great example of decent stuff that really knew how to pitch at a young age, developed before being brought up. We have to do this. I notice that you watched a game in Tulsa where our kid came in in relief in extra innings and couldn’t throw strikes. What a surprise. In a park where crushed balls die in the outfield (tulsa), you have to get ahead and stay ahead in the count and pitch to contact. Four or five inexpeirenced, wild, young pitchers on the Rockies staff is simply going to be a disaster for years.
The Rox defense is bad right now, falling behind in the count and pitching from behind is not going to help at all. It will take us awhile to improve the infield defense, but we don’t need to add to the pressure by pitching so poorly. I’m a former pitcher, so I tend to concentrate on this area. The Rockies history isn’t encouraging, but Jeff Francis and Aaron Cook managed to give us several years of good service, I want more of that. Bring them up when they are ready, not because we are desperate.
I agree with your thoughts on Dex, Scutaro, Tulo, Tracy in general.
TroyF
May 31, 2012 at 11:50 AM (UTC -6)
Thank you for proving my point. Guys like Bumgarner and Kershaw do not come around that often. Those two also have something our kids do not, they had huge parks to pitch in.
Look at Kershaw as a rookie. A 5.36 ERA away from Dodger stadium. His command got better each year in the bigs. His K/BB went like this:
100/52 in 107 innings
185/91 in 171 innings
212/54 in 207 innings
Go take a peak at the first 20-30 starts for guys like Johnny Cueto, Gio Gonzales, Matt Cain (especially away from San Fran), CC Sabathia and others. For MOST pitchers, it takes time. What GOOD organizations do is to put the young 23, 24 or 25 year old at the back of the rotation and ease him in as a 4th or 5th starter.
We ARE NOT a good organization. We have put these kids in a spot where the team is relying on them to compete day in, day out. When the two old guys (Moyer and Guthrie) are getting their brains beat in, it forces the 23-25 year olds to do things MOST 23-25 year olds cannot do.
Again, just look up the first 40 or so starts from most of your pitchers. they are not good. They develop because teams stay with them (or flake out and trade them too quickly as the Yankees did with Ian Kennedy) to a team that does. Idealy, I wish we had a good Ubaldo, a healthy JDR and a another decent pitcher in the third spot so the kids could all fight for 4th/5th starter jobs this year.
Guess what? It isn’t happening. What exactly would you like to do with this staff as it stands NOW? Who are you calling up? Chatwood and Pomeranz are down on the farm waiting. It behooves the Rockies to throw the kids every fifth day and let them develop. Then determine at the end of the season what you want to do.
I’d love it if we had a Bumgarner to bring up. Again, go take a peek at the young pitchers with fewer than 30 major league starts and tell me how many of them are there. (hint: It will be a VERY short list)
Not all of these kids will make it. But they also all won’t fail. We know they can tear apart minor league competition, so there aren’t a lot of lessons left there. let them take their knocks and reevaluate at the end of the year.
One last thing: Are you talking about the Jeff Francis who put up a 5.50+ ERA and a WHIP over over 1.5 in his first 40 starts, before settling down? Are you talking about the Aaron Cook who had a BB/K ratio of 70 to 57 and an ERA over 5.50+ in his first 160 innings of major league ball before he became good?
If I take your current opinion, it would seem you would have wanted those two guys out of here long before they ever became productive major league players. Like most young pitchers, they did what young pitchers do. They got their brains beat in early and improved as they continued to rack up innings. I would bet money that at least two of these guys will equal or exceed the career numbers of your two examples.
Pete
May 31, 2012 at 4:39 PM (UTC -6)
I’m guessing you are willing to write off not only this year, but two or three after this so that we can find out if any of our young pitchers are going to help us in the future.
Terrible, terrible waste of Tulo and Cargo.
Three essentially rookie pitchers means we aren’t competing and have given up on this season. Now you want four, or even five if Gutherie goes. I say again, if we do that we are going to be like Pittsburgh or KC, bad for years. Work up a trade and get an veteran pitcher that can pitch for us. Trades happen all the time, the players are out there. Don’t make this a rookie staff, trial by fire burns everyone.
Without defense these guys are doomed to fail. Hitting covers only so many weaknesses. Weak bullpen only adds pressure. You simply can’t go with a rookie staff in this situation. Trade. Trade. Trade. But first get rid of DOD since he can’t seem to trade worth a crap.
I suspect you will get your rookies, but if we do, then I doubt we will compete for years. None of them look all that promising. Good organizations don’t try to compete with 3+ rookies in the rotation. Good organizations keep a solid mix of established veterans that they can add the rookies to as the 5th starter on the back end, just as you said. They don’t shove minor leaguers (I don’t agree they were all “tearing it up” down there) into the 2 and 3 slots in the starting rotation and expect to compete. Won’t happen.
I don’t know what you think I am saying, but I will spell it out in a single sentence:
WE ARE WASTING THE PRIME YEARS OF TULO AND CARGO AND IT KILLS ME TO SEE MANAGEMENT GUT THE PITCHING STAFF BY PLAYING ROOKIES THAT AREN’T UP TO THE JOB, GET SOME VETERAN HELP AND COMPETE FOR THE PLAYOFF SPOTS, THE DIVISION ISN’T THAT STRONG.
OK, sorry for the shouting, the run-on sentence and the repetition. Clearly you think these kids are ready to take a shot. I don’t. Pomerantz and Chatwood aren’t ready either IMO.
TroyF
May 31, 2012 at 7:09 PM (UTC -6)
Trades take things to give back. Pitching is also the hottest thing on the market, so you have to overpay to get it. So with that in mind, who do you propose we go after and who do you give up? Want to give up a top 15 organizational prospect for a 4th starter who is a career back of the rotation guy?
I’m watching the first inning now and Guthrie is getting clubbed again. Nearly gave up a HR to start the game, two hits followed that.
You and I agree on a lot. I think the organization is fools for thinking Guthrie and Moyer would be the guys to lead this rotation. But they did make that decision. Now what?
There is no way I pull off a trade for any pitcher. Let the kids play and you do something important: EVALUATE THEM. you don’t run them out there for the next five years. You see which ones you build with, which ones you keep because they have potential and which ones you dump. You them figure out which FA pitchers you want to sign. If DLR shows something in the second half, and you decide two of the kids are keepers, you then make intelligent signings to fill out the rotation. (and you will have about 14 million to do it with)
But this year? You let them play. Personally, I like what I’ve seen of Freidrich. I think Pomeranz is going to be a top two rotation guy if Ap just leaves him the hell alone. White, Chatwood, Chacin, Nicasio? I’m just not sure. I’d love to see more of them to find out.
As for the hitters, Dexter, Tulo, Cargo Rosario are flat out keepers. I think Pacheco looks like a keeper as a PH, utility man. Obviously, Cuddyer is here two more years, like it or not. 2B is going to be a continuing issue for this team. We will see Arenado before the year is done.
i’m not talking about throwing in the towel for three years. On the other hand, I understand THIS team is going nowhere.
In my mind, you are missing two things:
1) If they have talent, kids improve. (you unwittingly proved my point with Francis and Cook)
2) Just because you play kids one year, doesn’t mean you are obligated to keep them for ten years or five years or even two years.
There aren’t a lot of options for this year. We can hope Guthrie turns it around, JLR comes back in July and MAYBE you find a waiver wire guy like JLR was. Even with that, you are going to need a lot of starts from the kids. The WORST thing this organization can do is make a snap decision on a Friedrich, Pomeranz,White or any of the young pitchers.
This is like poker. If you make a mistake in the middle of a hand, you don’t try to correct the decision based on what you had at the start of the hand. You make decisions based on the current conditions. Bad poker players lose a lot of money on that simple premise. The Rockies screwed up their hand with some horrific moves this offseason. You don’t “fix” those errors by going after “different” scrubs. You play the hand out. Not doing that will be the thing that causes us pain 3 years from now.
JD
May 31, 2012 at 11:39 PM (UTC -6)
Of course it sucks to waste the prime years of Cargo and Tulo, but it’s too late to whine about that. O’Dowd has already done it. We can still salvage the back half of their careers, but to do that, we have to admit that 2012 and 2013 are beyond saving. Throwing good money after bad only ensures that Tulo and Cargo end up just like Helton.
You can’t trade if you have nothing to trade. The only way this team grows is developing players. So let’s get developing!
Pete
May 31, 2012 at 9:14 PM (UTC -6)
Losing leads to more losing which leads to even more losing as it snowballs and destroys the organization. Which leads to losing fans and viewers. Again…see Pitt and KC, and you might be able to add SD and Seattle if they have another season like last. Since the Rox tanked in September of 2010, they have been losing and it needs to stop. You want to rebuild with kids next year, I don’t. Whatever.
FAs will not be knocking on the door to play in Coors field for a team with a losing record three years in a row. If you think otherwise, we disagree.
There are always players and trades to be made, pretty much at anytime of the season. I doubt we can make them, but they are there. You probably don’t go back this far, but Montreal wanted to trade the Rox Pedro Martinez STRAIGHT UP for Neffi Perez just before they sent him to Boston. Gebhardt said Neffi was untouchable and no trade was made. The point is that players are always available, always. Sabathia, Lee, etc… were rentals, but didn’t cost much. Oakland developes pitchers every year and trades them, why did we pick up the back end of their rotation instead of front? Gio was available apparently. I don’t expect Dowd to make any great moves, I expect we will pitch young kids, lose, then……….? What? Trade them at the end of the year? No. Send them down to the minors?……Maybe. Release them?……Not happening. Bring them back and pitch them again next year even if they suck? Probably…… You see, once youv’e installed a full rotation of rookies, then they don’t have to get better to keep their jobs, they just have to remain better than the minor leaguers beneath them.
Without FAs competing with them and without trades for 2nd or 3rd rotation guys, you have Pitt and KC, rotations that no FA wants to go help and rotations that are waiting to marginally improve through their own systems. Pitt finally traded for Burnett, but he isn’t front of the rotation anymore and is just filling a spot. I don’t want to end up like Pitt or KC or SD or Sea.
I never said the kids won’t improve, I said we can’t afford to do this all at once…..you and I clearly disagree here….so be it. Snap decision was to plug them in pre-mature, they need more seasoning.
There is going to be a playoff team that loses a middle inf and will take Scutaro for a pitcher. Make the trade. Maybe we can package Helton with say Rodgers(?) and get something. I’m just brainstorming here, Helton’s contract and production make it unlikely to move him, but someone has to start thinking outside the box.
I’d be willing to bet money Pomerantz is never a 2 or better on a winning club. Book it.
Poker players know you can’t throw good money after bad, and sometimes you have to fold the hand rather than play it. I want to see the next hand is all.
Even tho this team is going nowhere, they will probably have a run that gets everyone’s hope up. If we wait until the end of the year, we will be in big trouble. Evaluate from now until ASB and make some moves.
Seth
June 1, 2012 at 10:47 AM (UTC -6)
So you are suggesting we trade some of our young pitchers for veteran pitchers right? I think you are dead wrong because say if we do trade a guy like Friedrich, White, and/or Pomeranz for veteran pitching, that veteran pitcher may end up being like Guthrie, where he is terrible and become worthless, but you ended up giving up on a young promising pitcher like Pomeranz or Friedrich for maybe 6 months of terrible pitching from a guy much older. Then the Rockies are completely screwed because they have no good veteran pitchers and no young talent on the way since we traded them. And since no good pitcher comes here willingly through free agency, the Rox will be even worse for a longer period of time. Your plan makes no sense at all.
I much rather let the young kids develop is an already lost season than watch them trade them away for someone on the decline of his career. Yeah Pomeranz or White may never be more that a third or fourth starter, but I rather have a consistent third or fourth starter than a 32 year old former ace or #2 starter on the decline.
You give analogies to KC and Pittsburgh, but for every team like that there are example of the TB Rays, or the Athletics, and even the Giants. When was the last time they spent large money on a big free agent starter (save Barry Zito)? They let their kids develop like Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, Andrew Bailey, David Price, James Shields, Jeremy Hellickson…etc. Yeah some of them are no longer on their respective teams but thats because once they developed and became good starters they then traded them for more prospects or they kept them and let become better and better with time with the same organization. If the Rockies really wanted to trade for a veteran pitcher the asking price is going to be high for any pitcher no matter how good they are because pitching is always a commodity. Do you really think Wandy Rodriguez is worth Wilin Rosario AND Pomeranz because that is who they were asking for last year and in the off season-No way is he worth giving those two just for him. The asking price would be even higher for someone better than Wandy. Even a guy like Bruce Chen (worse than Wandy) from KC is going to cost the Rockies a guy like White and/or Chatwood and that would make no sense because he is in his mid-30′s. The Rockies need to let their kids play and see what they can put together in a string of consecutive starts over a season and then make a decision, if you make rash decisions and trade the young kids because they suck now, then you really will be like the Pirates and Royals and be terrible forever.
Troyf
May 31, 2012 at 10:06 PM (UTC -6)
There are no moves to be made. Sabathia was traded for four prospects in order to hold on to a playoff spot. The Rockies are notin the same position. They are not trading their top prospects for anyone. Scutaro, Helton and anything else on this team will not get you a pitcher. The Expos were complete fools. They made a panicked trade. It was one of the dumbest moves in the history of baseball. Yes, Perez probably could have netted Pedro at that time, but I am kind of guessing that Arenado is not going to bring in Strausberger or Darvish.
Gonzales cost the Nats four top tier prospects. Here is what the Rockies would have had to give up to match the Nats offer – Rosario, Matzek, friedrich, and White. Maybe you think that would have been good, I think it would have been disasterous.
I am sort to keep coming back to this, but you said you loved freakn Jeff Francis and Aaron Cook. Pomerania is 10x better at age 23 than Francis ever was and you do not think he. Will bea solid pitcher. Seriously!?!?
I would have loved to see yor opinions on Cliff Lee, Ian Kennedy, and most 23 year old pitchers when they were getting destroyed in their early years. Sorry, but if you seriously believe the Rockies are going to get a Sabathia, Pedro or Grienk, you are out of touch with reality.
As down as I am on this team, the guys bashing Dexter, Pomeranz and some of the other guys are downrite amusing to me.
JD
June 1, 2012 at 1:13 PM (UTC -6)
Bottom line is we have nothing to trade, and we will have nothing to trade until we develop something.
Travis Lay
June 1, 2012 at 3:59 PM (UTC -6)
We got you covered. New 3up/3down has been posted. Thanks for reading the site! I agree, we need more Rockies content with them playing “well”. ..even though it was against the Astros.
Steve
June 1, 2012 at 4:55 PM (UTC -6)
If the Rockies played the Houston Astros everyday, they would win 100+ games? I hope I am wrong and the offense has come alive and the bats are hot