The Rockies finished their home schedule with a sweep of the Cubs, only to be swept in LA by the sinking Dodgers. The final three games in Arizona will determine if this club becomes the first Rockies team to lose 100 games. One of the bright spots in an otherwise dismal year has been the play of Dexter Fowler. Although he started slowly, Fowler leads the team in WAR (2.6 from baseball-reference.com) and is fulfilling the potential that he started to show during the second half of 2011. The Rockies’ poor season has provided many young players with a chance to gain valuable experience and show what they can do during an extended try out. Wilin Rosario and Jordan Pacheco have been solid contributors all year, but the second half emergence of Chris Nelson has been surprising. Since the All-Star game, Nelson has a triple slash line of .352/.392/.519 for an OPS of .911 (OPS+ 151), making him a prime “this year’s Fowler” candidate. Here, we discuss if Nelson can be the next Dex, look at Drew Pomeranz, and weigh in on the September call-ups.
True or false: Chris Nelson’s second half is the real deal and will continue into 2013.
Brendan: False. I want to believe that this is real, but the facts are too inconvenient. Here is the problem: his 2nd half BAbip is a whopping .434 compared to .308 for the 1st half. That is in no way sustainable and indicates that he has been getting very lucky. For comparison purposes, Fowler’s 2011 BAbip broke down as follows: .345 in the 1st half; .361 in the 2nd half – indicating luck was not as big of an issue. I hope I am wrong. I have completely changed my opinion on Nelson and I want to see him blossom into the first rounder the Rockies envisioned when he was drafted, but the Fowler comparisons do not add up. Nelson has more power and is a better defender than Pacheco, and this recent version of Nelson even looks like a major league infielder (a Rockies third baseman as NL player of the week?!). Allowing for some regression, Nelson is likely still the best option for 2013 at third, but I have a hard time believing that he is a long term answer analogous to Fowler.
Kevin: There is no way Nelson continues his torrid streak into next year, so this is false. But, it is possible that Nelson has emerged as a decent MLB infielder who can replicate this season’s output next year. He is at least a good utility man who can play three positions in the infield, and he is the best option at the start of next year for third base, seeing as he is both a better defender and hitter than Jordan Pacheco, who is tricking people into thinking he is a very good player by having a shiny batting average. Once you look past Pacheco’s batting average, you quickly realize that there isn’t anything else there –– minimal power, poor defense, few walks, no speed. The troubling thing is that third base will probably be a weak position with either of these two playing there.
Ned: Nelson was a first round draft choice (9th overall) of the Rockies in 2004. He turned 27 on September 3. This year has been a real break-out season for Nelson. He has played in over 110 games this year with excellent results. The one thing baseball observers know is that performance is best measured over several years, with consistency being the key. This being said, Nelson’s trajectory is nicely upward. He has hit for a solid average this year with some power. Stats aside, he has a very good-looking swing. He has consistently hit the ball hard in the second half, driving it to all fields. At 27, it is important for him to finally make an impact at the major league level, and he has done so this year. Defensively, he plays a very nice third base—good range, quickness, arm strength and accuracy. He does look like the real deal, and may just be the team’s answer at third base.
Are you satisfied with Drew Pomeranz’s season?
Brendan: Yes. He did not meet my lofty ROY expectations, but I suppose his season has been satisfactory. The paired pitching strategy has made many of his statistics (esp. win-loss) difficult to interpret, so I am pretty much going by feel. His velocity is up (topping out at 94 during his last start) and he seems to be more comfortable on the mound. Command is still a problem and has led to high pitch counts and too many walks, but that is common for young pitchers. After his run in with the law off season, I was a little worried about his character. However, he handled his demotion to AAA with class and returned to the big leagues as a better pitcher. I don’t think he is going to be the “ace” that he was touted to be, but he is a solid middle of the rotation pitcher. Although his 2012 was disappointing, I am satisfied with how he has developed and am looking for him to take a big step forward in 2013.
Kevin: No satisfaction. I thought (more like foolishly hoped) he would be a rookie of the year candidate, but Pomeranz is far from that. He has shown flashes of brilliance at times (remember when he broke 10 Padre bats in 6 innings?), and his velocity has ticked back up to the low 90s, so with time he still can become a good starter. To make that leap he needs to develop his secondary pitches and become more effective at locating pitches. Even though he disappointed this year, he will only be 24 next year and there is still hope that he can lead the rotation.
Ned: No. Drew Pomeranz has been a major disappointment this year. He has lacked consistency, giving-up earned four or five earned runs for several games in a row, and then pitching shut-out ball for five innings. He is still young—23 years old this season. The physical ability is clearly there, but he does not seem to have developed the mental side of his pitching. Potential is great, but there comes a point when “having potential” is no longer an acceptable excuse for not performing. Next season, Pomeranz will be 24—it will be time for him to transform his potential into performance.
How do you evaluate the September call-ups (McBride, Blackmon, Brown, etc.)?
Brendan: I have not been impressed. These guys, not surprisingly, all look like replacement level players. Mcbride has little value with Helton returning, and Cuddyer, Colvin, and Pacheco are all feasible options at first. Blackmon and Brown have been average, but I would not give away Colvin or EY2’s spot to either one. Nothing against McBride, but the most troubling thing about the players called up is the Rockies abject failure to develop a first baseman to take over for Helton. Helton’s health and production have both been on the decline for years, so it is not like this should be coming as a surprise to the organization. How is there not a first baseman ready in the wings? I am happy that these guys got to “the show”, and it is always fun to cheer for the underdog, but it looks like more of the same from the Rockies’ development pipeline: a whole bunch of backups and fringe major leaguers.
Kevin: There is nothing to see here. None of these guys, with the exception of maybe Blackmon, have any future with the club. I would have preferred to give Nolan Arenado and Corey Dickerson a taste of major league baseball, seeing as those two actually might have a future with the club. The Rockies claim that they didn’t bring up top prospects because they don’t want to start arbitration clocks, and this might actually make some sense. However, the Rockies also claim that they didn’t call up prospects because the prospects would have to be added to the 40-man roster and consequently some gem like Johnny Herrera or Andrew Brown would have to be dropped from the roster. God forbid this club give up its death grip on one of its numerous AAAA players.
Ned: The August-September call-ups have been one of the few exciting things about this otherwise dismal season. Blackmon has recovered from the persistent foot injury, and has recently returned to the offensive form we saw briefly last year. Andrew Brown’s 460 foot shot on September 22 to the left field concourse and then into player’s parking lot on a bounce is legendary. Brown may never do another notable thing for the Rockies, but will always be remembered for that shot. (By the way, we are still awaiting word on whether the ball hit Tulo’s Ferrari.) While a mid-season call-up rather than late call-up, DJ LeMahieu has shown that he should make the opening day roster in 2013. In summary, it has been a promising showing for a number of young players which should make the house-cleaning job easier for whoever the Rockies’ GM is after this train-wreck of a season.
Have a different take? Let us know in the comments below.
Got an idea for a future 3U3D discussion? Email us at BlakeStBulletin@gmail.com
Loading ...
Loading tweets...
43 comments
BA Baracus
October 2, 2012 at 7:42 PM (UTC -6)
I hope Nelson can get it done next year since we have little hope of stopping anyone from scoring, we have to go all West Virginia-Baylor and outscore everyone, especially at home. What we really need is for Tulo and Cargo to be healthy for the whole year and for Rosario to continue to pound the ball.
On a side note and for the 4th question, do you think that a knuckleball pitcher could be successful for the Rockies, do the Rockies (or anyone) currently have any knuckleball pitchers in the minors, and why are there not more knuckleball pitchers in the majors? Besides the obvious complexities of mastering the pitch, it seems that it would be a good way for pitchers to extend their careers when they start losing velocity and at the same time have so much experience accurately hitting spots in the strike zone. Hand size probably has something to do with an effective knuckler, which may limit the number of pitchers that could even attempt it although that is only speculation.
Brendan Giles
October 3, 2012 at 7:53 AM (UTC -6)
Regarding the knuckleballers, it is an issue of player development. Organizations are willing to spend millions on kids that throw in the 90′s, but there just isn’t the devepoment market for guys that throw softer. It is hard to give a guy a contract when we doesn’t project conventionally. I completely agree with you that the success of knuckleball pitchers (with a whopping sample size of 2) should lead to a more open minded approach, but I don’t see it happening as an official organizational strategy. The interesting thing would be for a position player or two to get good at throwing it and then during the blowouts send him in to eat some innings without wasting your bullpen. Injury risks aside (conveniently), that would extend the bullpen arms to 13 without having to actually carry an extra pitcher. Crazy? definitely. Stupid? i guess that depends on your perspective, but I think it is at least interesting. Maybe Pacheco could learn it? That would truly make him a super sub.
Anonymous
October 3, 2012 at 8:52 AM (UTC -6)
The problems with knuckleballs is three-fold. First, Coors’ thin air flattens all pitches, whether a curve, slider, gyroball, knuckleball, etc. Second, knuckleballs are thrown so slowly (Wakefield threw in the 50s and 60s I think, but RA Dickey might throw faster, I’ll have to look it up) that anyone reading this blog could hit it, let alone an MLB hitter. Third, because the knuckleball has no deception (ie, the hitter knows it is coming) and is so slow, it needs to move A LOT. So much so that it is extremely difficult to catch. I think knuckleballs that move so much that you need a special catcher are exceedingly rare and very hard to find.
I am by no means anti-knuckleball. The knuckleball is one of the many quirky things that makes baseball so great.
Michael
October 6, 2012 at 5:58 PM (UTC -6)
Dickey throws 2 different types of knuckleball, one in the low 80′s another in the 70′s velocity wise
Simone
October 2, 2012 at 8:19 PM (UTC -6)
Fowler had a really good year. So this means O’Dowd will dump him in the offseason…
Michael
October 6, 2012 at 6:01 PM (UTC -6)
ESPN rumors says the Rox are shopping Fowler and Cuddyer. Awesome. Nothing like compounding bad moves by making more.
Seth
October 2, 2012 at 10:10 PM (UTC -6)
If the Rockies were smart, they should sell high on Nelson in the winter. Trade him now as this will be the offseason where his value is at its greatest. Well you then may ask who will play third next year for the Rockies? It should be Lemahieu, I think he is a very good defender (better than Nelson) and a decent bat. He may not hit for as much power as Nelson but we are not necessarily looking for extreme power from Nelson as we get it from other positions. If Lemahieu struggles then it may be time to bring up Arenado but I would definitely sell high on Nelson as he holds the greatest amount of value now than at any other point in his career.
Pomeranz’s season I think has been a disaster. He has been extremely inconsistent where he throws 94 for 6 solid innings and then can barely get through 3 innings the next 3 starts while throwing only 89. This may have to do with injuries, the 4 man rotation, or whatever. But I have seen him act like a big baby out on the hill when things go wrong so I think mentally he is not an ace and will never be an ace. Yes he has the tools but I dont think he will ever put it all together to be the ace as people projected.
All those players brought up this september mean nothing to this club. All the outfielders brought up will have a hard time finding a spot to play with Cuddyer (unfortunately) Fowler, Cargo, and EY jr. I think we are pretty full in the outfield. I have been hearing that the Rockies will be listening to offers for Cuddyer and Fowler in order to find more pitching (ugh). So that may open up a spot for maybe Blackmon so we will see what happens in the offseason which will probably be more exciting than the regular season. But have no fear Rockies fans, Odowd will somehow screw us again and again. The fact that these players were the only ones called up in September is a joke by itself.
Brendan Giles
October 3, 2012 at 8:02 AM (UTC -6)
Trading Nelson is a good argument. I doubt that he is worth much in an off season trade, but I agree that there is a glut of similar players and he likely has the most value at this point. Maybe he could be the throw in player in a Cuddyer deal to get someone to bite?
Kevin Giles
October 3, 2012 at 9:08 AM (UTC -6)
Trading Nelson is fine by me. I doubt that he would get much in return, but it’s worth looking into. Third base is looking like it will be a dud of a position next year anyways, whether it’s Nelson, Pacheco, DJ, or Arenado. There probably isn’t much difference in the production from those players.
Regarding Cuddyer, it is so abundantly clear that this team needs to dump him. Great clubhouse guy, has great magic tricks, blah blah blah. There are younger, cheaper, more talented guys on the team who play his positions.
Dex is probably might favorite Rockie from this team but I think the Rockies should entertain the idea of trading him. His stock his really high right now, and the Rockies might actually get a good player or two in return for him. Plus, you could replace him in center with EY2, whose speed plays well in center and looks like he took a big step forward this year offensively. Sure, his offense may have been a fluke but his RC+ of 123, the same as Dex. So the performance drop off in center will be minimized by EY2, whose defensive stats in center are much better than Dex’s, and maybe you could bolster the pitching staff. The big problem is that O’Dowd might ignore ground ball stats and acquire a fly ball pitcher to pitch in a place where fly ball pitchers go to die. Anybody remember Andy Ashby? I sure do.
TroyF
October 3, 2012 at 9:08 AM (UTC -6)
1) No, Nelson is not going to be the answer at third base. He’s only slightly better than Pacheco as a defensive guy. I love Nelson as a player, but the problem is how many utility guys can we keep? DJ, Herrera, Nelson, Pacheco, etc. . . We have a lot of guys who are good utility guys and not nearly as many who can play full time.
2) Am I satisfied with Pomeranz season? Not really. But the kid is a kid. I think he’ll be a lot better next year. I think the problem with most of the Rockies pitchers is this: We had a ton of kids who in a perfect world would have had some pressure on them. . . Instead, the vets were nowhere to be found. Guthrie (disaster), Moyer (disaster), Chacin (injuried) and DLR (did not come back as early as we thought) provided about ZERO in the way of leadership and solid outings. This put huge pressure on the kids to be better than they were. The dumb (and I do call it dumb) 4 man rotation hurt this staff even more.
I’m just hoping that little experiment doesn’t ruin all of our young pitchers. It was the stupidest thing I’d ever heard when it happened, and continues to be stupid to this day.
3) September call ups? Really? We’d already seen Blackmon. He’ll be a good fourth OF. None of the other guys have a future with this team. I saw nothing. Arenado quietly had a strong finish to his season and should have gotten a call. Of course, his attitude problem kept him in AA. (I say attitude problem dripping with sarcasm. . . even if he has one, Dan O’MoronicIdiot shouldn’t say he has one.) The way this organization treats young players is beyond horrific. We are all talking about a breakout for Fowler this year. . . . he spent how many games hitting EIGHTH? Seriously?
Dan, next time a TWENTY ONE year old kid has an attitude issue, maybe it would be best to talk to him about it before going to the media and blasting the top prospect in your organization. Just a thought.
JD
October 3, 2012 at 10:06 AM (UTC -6)
Contrary to what you might think, the Rockies should not be trading position players for pitching. They have proven that they get pennies on the dollar every time. It is actually strong position players, not pitchers, that we need to lock up, because we know we need plus players at every position to compete. Pitching problems must be solved through the draft, first and foremost, and through smart scrap-heap picking. We need a huge surplus of positional talent before we should trade any of it for pitching.
Fowler shouldn’t go anywhere. Nelson should stick around for lack of a better option at 3rd. Cuddyer should go, not because we want something in return, but as a salary dump.
If we trade Fowler, we will be a worse offensive and defensive team, and we will get another Outman and Moscoso in return. Especially so long as the current front office is doing the trading.
Kevin Giles
October 3, 2012 at 11:16 AM (UTC -6)
I would be fine locking up Fowler. In a perfect world where the Rockies have a good GM who can get at least fair value, Fowler would bring in a decent haul for pitching, and in this perfect world a trade would be worth considering.
Be careful not to overrate Fowler’s defense. His defensive metrics have been terrible this year and have been bad his entire career. I’m not convinced that there would be a big overall drop off from Fowler to EY2 (assuming that EY2 would replace Fowler), but I am higher on EY2 than most. In fact, I would like to see him as the starting centerfielder with Fowler shifted to right. Of course, that would never happen because Cuddyer will play rightfield because he’s magic.
CodenameDuchess
October 3, 2012 at 11:27 AM (UTC -6)
Agreed. I really wish people would stop talking about trading assets. This team has so many problems that I don’t get the idea or trading known solutions for more potential contributors.
Here are the known commodities…
Tulo
Cargo
Fowler
Exciting assets but not 100% sold….
Rosario (defensive questions)
Rutledge (Position change, small sample size)
Colvin (Who is the real Colvin, 2011? or ’10/’12?)
Those are 6 guys that fill a role and should be thought of as solutions. Trusting the morons in the front office to get fair value or execute a beneficial trade with any of the above players is organizational suicide.
AAAA/Role Players/Up-gradable positions….
Nelson
Pacheco
Helton
Cuddyer
LeMahieu
Blackmon
Herrera
Giambi
EYJ
The organization can feel free do whatever they like to this group. There is obviously not a lot of value here and the organization would never move Helton but if they can package Cuddyer and Nelson/EYJ to get some new blood I certainly wont bitch.
Kevin Giles
October 3, 2012 at 11:35 AM (UTC -6)
Also, although O’Dowd clearly should be fired, people conveniently overlook that many of his trades have been clear wins.
Here are some good trades he has made:
Matt Holliday for Carlos Gonzalez, Huston Street, and Greg Smith
Ramon Ramirez for Jorge de la Rosa
Ian Stewart and Casey Weathers for Tyler Colvin and DJ LeMaheiu (sure, these were two first round pick busts)
Anuery Rodriguez for Jason Hammel
trade Larry Walker and use the saved cash to draft and sign Dexter Fowler
Other trades he has made:
Ubaldo for Pomeranz, White, et al — the jury is still out on this trade, but at least they saw the future for Ubaldo and dumped him while he still could bring in some prospects
Seth Smith for Outmand and Moscoso — Yeah, Moscoso and Outman suck, but Seth Smith is a fourth outfielder, so don’t expect much from trading Smith
Chris Iannetta for Tyler Chatwood — This trade drives me crazy because the organization never appreciated Iannetta for being a decent catcher who was an absolute walk machine with some power. Chatwood has some potential, but the Rockies never understood how valuable an asset Iannetta was, and that is very troubling, and maybe that explains why guys like Cuddyer, Herrera, and Pacheco are so well liked by the organization.
Jason Hammel and Matt Lindstrom for Jeremy Guthrie — wow, terrible trade
Esmil Rogers for a bag of Ds — terrible terrible trade, mostly because the organization and Tracy in particular failed Esmil
Franklin Morales for a bag of Ds — terrible terrible trade, mostly because the organization failed to develop Franklin
Look, O’Dowd must go, but people often overlook his successes
Seth
October 3, 2012 at 12:35 PM (UTC -6)
Just a little sidenote on the Ubaldo trade, I think the reason we win that trade is because of Joe Gardner who we have yet to see pitch but has done really well in the minors both starting and relieving and could have an impact with the Rockies in both roles. He is a ground ball machine with a ground out-to- fly ball out ratio of over 2. Probably should have been another call up this september but oh well…
JD
October 3, 2012 at 1:47 PM (UTC -6)
The Holliday trade was only a win because we saved money. Cargo has not been more valuable so far. Dumping Walker was also a no-brainer – no good players gained there.
Ubaldo was a loss, because he only became garbage due to organizational mismanagement, and we got garbage in return. Seth Smith was also a loss, because he had value. Iannetta, Guthrie, Morales, Barmes, Paulino… need I go on?
Kevin Giles
October 3, 2012 at 3:06 PM (UTC -6)
Agreed on the Holliday trade. I took a closer look at the numbers and saving money is what might make that trade a win. Matt Holliday is a beast.
As for the other trades, there is a pattern of trading low level players (eg Smith, Barmes) for lower level players, which is probably part of the reason this team went from bad last year to super bad this year.
The trades that really frustrate me are the Franklin Morales trade and the Iannetta trade. For Iannetta, see my comment above. Regarding Morales, the guy had a an ERA+ of 121 when they gave up on him in 2011. Compared to the pitchers they’ve been trotting out this year, he was not nearly as bad as them and had more potential than almost all of them.
BA Baracus
October 3, 2012 at 12:51 PM (UTC -6)
Looking to the offseason, does anyone know how many of the guys, specifically the guys that physically breakdown (pitchers and of course Tulowitzki), stay in Denver or at least train at altitude in the offseason. I understand they want to go somewhere warm, but maybe they should go to a place like Quito, Ecuador, (elevation 9350) so they can stay at altitude year around, and physically readjusting to altitude wouldn’t be an issue. if I was paying out Millions of dollars every year to people who can’t stay on the field, I would strongly suggest this strategy to them. If altitude is really an issue in recovery time for pitchers, then this makes too much sense for O’Dowd to suggest it, so it won’t happen.
Logan Burdine
October 3, 2012 at 1:26 PM (UTC -6)
Altitude making it difficult to pitch? I’ll buy that. Altitude causing injuries? I’m calling bull shit. This area of the country is an Olympic training Mecca of sorts b/c of the altitude. I’m so sick of them using that as an excuse.
BA Baracus
October 3, 2012 at 2:09 PM (UTC -6)
Ouch
Jeremy
October 8, 2012 at 1:30 PM (UTC -6)
They use it as an excuse for injuries to pitchers because they throw harder to get the same breaks they would get at lower altitudes with lower speeds.
This is actually valid, from a scientific perspective, and is backed up by a plethora of figures showing how many fewer pitchers eat a set number of innings in a 3 year span considered to league average.
Now maybe you could blame their health and conditioning coach, or something to that effect, but there is certainly data saying their are reasons to think altitude adds to injuries.
And your Olympic comment actually reinforces the injury thing. Aside from the fact that its mostly about aerobic conditioning, which is irrelevant to this discussion, it would make sense for athletes to train in locations that are hardest on their bodies because that would make them the strongest. They wouldn’t avoid it like you seem to imply.
Logan Burdine
October 8, 2012 at 1:44 PM (UTC -6)
First off, Geivett was applying this to all players, not just pitchers. Secondly, it’s more than aerobic athletes that are training here. US Olympic wrestling in Co Springs, for example. Wouldn’t wrestling be quite a bit harder on the body? MMA too. Albuquerque and Big Bear are two of the biggest training facilities in the sport. I keep hearing that there is evidence to support this, but I’ve never seen a shred of compelling evidence. The fact that they have never had a guy throw three consecutive seasons of 200+ innings isn’t convincing to me. Maybe that’s because they get hurt easily, but it could just as easily be because the Rockies have never been able to draft and develop pitchers. Not to mention, you don’t hear teams saying this about their high altitude minor league affiliates.
Jeremy
October 8, 2012 at 2:48 PM (UTC -6)
Um, wrestling is incredibly aerobic…
Jeremy
October 8, 2012 at 2:52 PM (UTC -6)
How many other teams have high altitude minor league affiliates?
Because from what I have heard, all our pitchers hate Colorado Springs even more, and every one of our injured pitchers spent time there, so again, that more just supports the theory than anything else.
And I agree, this is all circumstantial evidence. But that is the best you are going to get as this is probably one very hard thing to prove or disprove, whether it be medically, scientifically, metaphysically, etc. but 3 pitchers of the above longevity compared to a league average of 10 is a whopping difference that needs to be explained somehow.
After considering the irrefutable evidence that pitchers must try much harder for the same breaking ball as elsewhere does yield itself to the common sense argument that hey, maybe altitude is contributing to this problem.
Jeremy
October 8, 2012 at 2:54 PM (UTC -6)
I would agree that the injury to fielders is probably less significant, but the outfielders are covering some of the largest areas of any fielders in the game, and the ball speed is probably slightly higher thus requiring quicker reactions and more spontaneous moves than to other players, but seems like it would be a very marginal difference if at all.
Logan Burdine
October 9, 2012 at 8:38 AM (UTC -6)
I seriously doubt you’re actually arguing that wrestling is purely an aerobic sport. It’s certainly part of it, but I have to believe being body slammed is harder on the body than running down a fly ball in the outfield. And let’s just be realistic here. A baseball season wears on players because of its length, but this is baseball. It’s not like guys are out there banging on every play. Which brings me to my next point — the Broncos have been playing here for decades. This has never once been a complaint we’ve heard from that org. And if it’s true that you can’t stay healthy in altitude, the football team would be hit much harder by it than the baseball team.
It’s total speculation, not backed up by anything substantive.
There are a ton of teams with high altitude affiliates. The Cali, Pioneer, and Pacific are all full of high altitude locations. I’m sure they do hate pitching in Colorado Springs. It’s 25% higher than Coors and sits on a mesa where the wind blows out constantly. There isn’t any evidence that guys are getting hurt more there though.
Jeremy
October 9, 2012 at 9:12 AM (UTC -6)
Haha, when did I say it was purely aerobic? I was only saying the training in altitude would help them substantially because of the incredible amount of oxygen required to wrestle. In using all of your muscles from head to toe, you pump a ton of blood and need it oxygen rich to those parts to function at a high level and not generate lactic acid and create cramps.
I was simply pointing out that this is the reason they train at altitude. Same with MMA, they train here precisely because of the aerobics in their sports. It’s not just runners that need high aerobic capabilities, not sure how you don’t realize that. Breathing and sufficient oxygen intake are a factor second to NONE in ALL sports, that is why they train here.
I was simply saying that they wouldn’t avoid training here due to a slightly higher risk of injury because of the substantial return on their investment with increased respiratory capabilities.
And regardless, I don’t get why you are arguing with me, I already agreed that I didn’t buy the injury excuse for position players, so bringing the Broncos into this has absolutely nothing to do with what I am saying. Are you reading my points, or just arguing with me because you assume I am as stupid as Geivett?
Logan Burdine
October 9, 2012 at 9:18 AM (UTC -6)
What makes you think I don’t realize that training here is about oxygen? My point is that if it caused injuries too, it wouldn’t be worth the trade off.
Weren’t you the one that started this argument with me? I’m arguing b/c I think applying this theory to baseball, probably the least physically demanding of the major professional team sports, is totally bunk. I’m really tired of the Rockies force feeding it to us and expecting us to believe it without providing a shred of evidence to back it up.
BA Baracus
October 9, 2012 at 8:42 AM (UTC -6)
I don’t think they can avoid injury by training at altitude year around, but if they can decrease the chance of injury in pitchers and for Tulo, then I think they should try it instead of crying about pitching at altitude. If I was a pitcher making big bucks for the Rockies, I would want to at least try it to see if it made me better. If nothing else it might toughen them up and get a guy like Tulo acclimated to the sometimes harsh Rocky Mountain spring time, which is the time that he usually is not at his best.
BA Baracus
October 3, 2012 at 1:46 PM (UTC -6)
Who do the Rockies take with the #3 overall pick?
Logan Burdine
October 3, 2012 at 3:11 PM (UTC -6)
Botch it, is my guess.
BA Baracus
October 3, 2012 at 8:39 PM (UTC -6)
You were supposed to say knuckleball pitcher.
Logan Burdine
October 4, 2012 at 8:56 AM (UTC -6)
hahahaha!
“We thought he would work out, but the knuckleball just hasn’t worked in altitude like we thought it would. We really deal with a lot more than any other team in baseball. You guys don’t understand.”
CodenameDuchess
October 3, 2012 at 7:02 PM (UTC -6)
A signable college player who most pundits will consider a late 1st / early 2nd round talent at best.
Brendan Giles
October 4, 2012 at 8:08 AM (UTC -6)
It would be funny, except you are exactly right. We know from Geivett that it will not be a pitcher (that is what the Latin American program is supposed to be doing) so get ready for another replacement-level outfielder. Ugh.
I am interested to see what the repercussions are from the Appel saga in Pittsburgh. Does he get drafted in the first round again? Does he sign for more money? It is a real-time test of the new rules. I desperately want the Rockies to do what the Pirates did this last draft: take the best player available and refuse to go into the penalty during contact negotiations. Worst case scenario is that the pick doesn’t sign (like Appel) and the team is given the third choice in next year’s draft in addition to the top 10 pick they will be getting for their 2013 performance. Not signing a good player vs signing a Greg Reynolds/Casey Weathers type player yields the same thing – nothing – only at least the money isn’t pissed away and can be used to eat part of Cuddyer’s contract to make a trade more palatable.
CodenameDuchess
October 4, 2012 at 3:09 PM (UTC -6)
Oh I wasn’t trying to be funny, maybe in a very sad ironic way but mostly I was just laying out what I think the organization will do.
I really wish they would just take the Rays approach and grab the absolute best guy they can. Sometimes it works out, (Longoria, Price, Upton) sometimes it doesn’t (Hamilton, Beckham, Brazelton).
Logan Burdine
October 4, 2012 at 3:30 PM (UTC -6)
I wish the Rockies did a lot of things the Rays do. In fact, I’d say that the Rays are the Anti-Rockies.
Logan Burdine
October 4, 2012 at 8:57 AM (UTC -6)
It’s not funny, because it is true. I’m fully confident they’ll screw it up.
TroyF
October 3, 2012 at 10:58 PM (UTC -6)
O’Dowd has made some good trades. I don’t think the organizations problems is necessarily trades. It’s drafting, developing youth and free agency where he’s failed this team.
We shipped Hammel, Ianetta and Street this offseason. That saved us around 16 million dollars a year. We replaced it with Cuddyer, Guthrie and Hernandez for over 21 million a year.
I actually kind of like Chatwood, but would you trade the three we gave up plus 5 million in cash for the three we got plus Chatwood? How about no.
What’s worse, we are stuck with the Cuddyer contract for two more years.
Why we are seriously talking about trading assets is mind boggling. You’ve started the rebuilding in the second half, keep it going next year. Rutledge, Rosario, Arenado and the yound pitchers. . . let them play with the proven vets (Tulo, Cargo, Fowler, etc.) There are ZERO pitchers who will be available int trades who will make this team a contender next year. So stop it with the idea of shipping good players out. We don’t have enough of them as it is.
Logan Burdine
October 4, 2012 at 8:59 AM (UTC -6)
He’s probably won more trades than he’s lost. Holliday had to happen and considering the leverage they lacked, they brought back a decent haul. I agree though. It’s player development, or lack thereof, that’s killing this org right now. They are failing in the draft. Can you imagine where they’d be without the Latin American pipeline they’ve had going?
Pete
October 4, 2012 at 8:40 PM (UTC -6)
1. Chris Nelson is a solid player, decent glove, decent bat….but the only decision the Rox have to make is whether he gets a shot at third or gets traded. If this was a breakout year, then give him a shot at third and see if he continues to improve or ultimately gets beat out by Arenado or someone else. If this was a fluke, then trade him now while his value has peaked.
2. How could anybody be disappointed in Pomerantz? He has zero command and very mediocre stuff, what did you expect and, more important, why? Seriously, did anyone expect David Price, Wade Miley or Matt Moore? Why? Alex White has a better fastball and even worse command or idea of what he is doing. Chatwood has the best pure fastball, but is still really green and needs a lot of work. Nicasio and Friedrich showed the most promise early and then went down before we could see if the promise was real or simply a good start. Moyer was desperation personified, Gutherie was a poor choice and wasn’t going to fit, Sanchez is a joke, and Francis just pitched better than the rest by comparison. Chacin probably comes with the greatest expectations for 2013, but I would have said the same for 2012, so who knows. De La Rosa will fill in a spot in the rotation, and hopefully improve things for 2013, but I didn’t have any expectations for 2012.
3. I don’t think Tracy views the September call ups the same as I do. The series against the Cubs and the Diamondbacks at the end should have had different starting and relieving pitchers. Why is Francis starting the last game? Don’t we have any prospects to look at? Start Scahill and let him throw three and follow him with Harris, or the reverse. The only one we got a good look at was Escalona, who I expect to see in the bullpen next year simply because he has a big arm. The field players didn’t show anything as call ups.
TroyF
October 7, 2012 at 8:29 AM (UTC -6)
Pete,
Pomeranz has mediocre stuff, really? He gave up 97 hits in 96 and 2/3 innings. He was the only Rockies starter even in the ballpark to a hit or less an inning.
I’m not saying he will win Cy Youngs or be a the ace of the staff next year, but the kid is 23 years old and is going to improve. His fastball clearly got stronger as the year went on and that fastball will set up his secondary pitches.
I know with guys like Strasberg, Trout and Harper people think that prospects should be successful instantly, but that is rarely the case.
Only 16 pitchers 23 years of age or younger threw 90 or more innings. (actually 15, but I let one guy count at 89 2/3)
Of that group, Smyly, Sale, Strasberg, Parker, Moore and Bumgarner were the studs.
We have a total of 6 guys who pitches a lot and were impactful at a young age. What If I included 24 year olds? Well, 11 of them pitched 90 innings or more. 16 guys who were 25 years of age threw 90 or more innings. If we add them all up pitchers 25 or under represented 27% of all MLB pitcher to throw 90 or more innings for their teams.
My point here? He’s clearly got decent stuff, all of the stats point it out. No other Rockies starter, regardless of age, beat Pomeranz in batting average against, OBP against, SLG against, or whip. If that’s mediocre stuff, I don’t want to talk about the rest of our staff, because quite frankly, I would like to be able to keep down my breakfast.
Greg in Arvada
October 10, 2012 at 8:03 AM (UTC -6)
The caption to the above picture of Nelson and Colvin is: A fan yelling ‘How many games have you won in the last ten days!!!’