A common train of thought these days is that managers, by-in-large, do more harm than good, and furthermore, even the good ones are generally overrated. I don’t agree with that. Just because leadership isn’t quantifiable doesn’t mean it isn’t extremely valuable. To see an illustration of this, you need to look no further than the 2011-2012 Colorado Rockies. Jim Tracy, while being a hell of a guy, was an ineffective leader. Lost in the frustration of the last two years is the fact that this team, as it is currently constructed, does not have 100 loss talent. Certainly, injuries have been part of the problem, but clearly, Tracy was not getting the most out of his team. They are better than they performed last year. His decision to walk away was a blessing.
However, with the way things have gone in Colorado lately, there was legitimate concern that whoever the Rockies brought in as Jim’s replacement would be a bad choice and probably a puppet for O’Dowd and Geivett. The Rockies need a manager that can relate to players – at which Tracy apparently excelled – but also demand accountability – at which Tracy was a failure. In addition to that, this team also needs someone that can stand up to DOD and Geivett. In fact, they need a leader that will make DOD feel like Geivett’s presence in the clubhouse is no longer necessary. That can’t be an ideal situation; after all, it’s difficult to follow if you are being pointed in two different directions.
I think they found their man. Over the last few days, I’ve come around more and more on Walt Weiss to the point where I now think this was a terrific hire. I would even go so far as to say that this is the most positive thing to happen in this organization in a couple of years.
When last we spoke, I mentioned my concerns about Walt’s close relationship with O’Dowd, but I also said that he might be the best candidate out of the four. But, here’s the thing about Walt Weiss – he has stood up to this organization before and ended up leaving all together, but clearly he earned their respect in the process. By all accounts, he’s not the type of guy that will just lie down and take whatever Geivett and DOD give to him. That is why I’m encouraged about him running this team. The Rockies got themselves a man with some backbone. I could be wrong. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time, but from talking to some folks in the know that was the impression I was given.
The fact that Weiss hasn’t managed in the bigs before is not a concern. Weiss played for, and presumably learned from, the following men while he was in the majors: Tony La Russa, Bobby Cox, Don Baylor, and Rene Lachmann. (Lachmann will probably be hired as the Rockies hitting coach.) La Russa and Cox, the two he spent the most time with, are Hall of Famers. For managerial school, he essentially went to Yale for undergrad and got his graduate degree from Harvard. In other words, I like his pedigree.
Weiss and the Rockies agreed to a one year deal, which at first look seems peculiar since this is the same org that recently agreed to a lifetime handshake agreement with the guy who just walked away. However, functionally, Weiss’s contract doesn’t play out any different than Tracy’s. O’Dowd said today that they are all on one year deals anyway. I don’t feel like that’s true for Dan, but it really is for most people in the baseball industry. Weiss will have to get results. He’ll be given a little bit of a leash since they were a disaster this year, but if he does a good job, and both sides want to continue the relationship, he’ll be back. It’s no different than the situation with at least half the managers in baseball.
It would not surprise me in the least if Weiss winds up in the manager of the year conversation next year. While I obviously believe in Weiss’s abilities, that’s more a statement on the Rockies’ talent than it is him. If they get a healthy Chacin, DLR, and Tulo next year, it’s not out of the question to expect a fifteen win improvement. That would have them flirting with .500, a benchmark that would garner Weiss some attention.
Overall, I say quality hire. I believe they got a guy that will demand accountability, value defense, appreciate a player that gets on base, stand up to the bosses, and perhaps most importantly, be able to relate to and develop young players. How’s that? A little positivity on this site for once.
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16 comments
Kevin Jordan
November 8, 2012 at 6:46 PM (UTC -6)
As much as I’d like to be optimistic about this move, it comes with too many red flags to buy into whole-heartedly.
1. Walt Weiss was on nobody’s radar.
2. His long association with O’Dowd stinks of cronyism and is an indictment of the thoroughness of their managerial search.
3. A one year contract for a new guy to manage a 98-loss team is not normal. In a vacuum, it is functionally the same as Tracy’s, but this is not a vacuum. Tracy would have been going into year 5 of Rockies management. This would have been assessed completely different than Weiss will be assessed. It also makes it really easy to ditch him at the end of the season and lay whatever blame is available on him.
4. With all due respect to Mike Matheny and Robin Ventura, they inherited good teams with sound front offices, which helps make up for the lack of coaching experience, and both teams still choked at the end of their seasons. Weiss is inheriting a disaster with a bungling, meddling front office, which will only shine a spotlight on his lack of coaching experience.
Of the 4 choices, I think Weiss was #2, but then the candidate field wasn’t exactly deep. I hope Weiss does well and is left alone to make decisions, but it just feels like he was picked because his combination of no experience and O’Dowd relationship makes him an easy stooge for O’Dowd and Geivett to control. I’m going back to red flag #1 here.
All I’m saying is large grains of salt are required here. At most, cautious optimism.
Forsythe P Jones
November 8, 2012 at 8:31 PM (UTC -6)
Yeah, those are all real concerns. I’m more in the camp of liking this move, however. My biggest concern with the managerial search was that the Rox would just drop another rehashed body into the seat ( or Tom Runnells, who, nothing against, I really wasn’t interested in ), shrug, and move on. I was intrigued by the idea of Giambi, but he was likely a bit too close to some of the players to work effectively (although I think he should be kept on as hitting coach if he wants to). Williams I’d heard nothing about one way or the other. To hear some of the reaction, you’d think that Weiss was some guy who’d played for a few years, and was now selling cars. He has been in the game his whole life, was always a smart player, and knows how ballclubs work. Is it different? Yes. But, really, was hiring Ron Wotus or some guy off the Phillies staff any better? I’m curious to know who so many of the critics of this move think would have been a better, or even plausible, option. This is a team with a damaged reputation in the game, due mostly to the incompetence of the front office.
It seems obvious to state, but managers are, mostly, successful because of the players on the field. They can be helpful and harmful in equal measure, but, for the most part, just need to be competent in evaluation and bullpen usage. I mean, Joe Torre won five titles in New York, and he looked to be asleep 90 percent of the time.
Marcus Farrell
November 9, 2012 at 9:55 AM (UTC -6)
I think this move has potential to be bad. I have nothing against Walt Weiss I enjoyed the way he played the game and if I was in his position and the Rockies came to me wanting an interview I would do the same thing Weiss did. The problem is that this is not just another team. This managerial position comes with multiple catches the biggest being Geivett breathing down their necks. The post refers to Weiss having the backbone and standing up to management but that didn’t exactly work out in his favor so why would that help this time? If he stands up to them he either quits or gets fired then we are in the same position. This front office has shown they are very stubborn in their ways so why would Weiss standing up to them make them back down?
Pete
November 9, 2012 at 1:32 PM (UTC -6)
At first glance it doesn’t seem like the team is going to be any different with Weiss, but let’s see how it plays out. We need pitching, hitting and defence a lot more than management. Kinda curious as to who will be the pitching and bench coaches.
Kevin Jordan
November 9, 2012 at 3:05 PM (UTC -6)
All information is pointing at Runnells to remain the bench coach. I haven’t heard even a rumor for pitching coach, just that Mark Wiley is the new director of pitching operations (whatever that means), a new position the Rockies invented.
On that note, am I the only one whose noticed the Rockies management behaves exactly like our federal government? They continually make excuses for failure, create new management positions to “help figure out the problem,” they never select guys outside of the establishment, they never fire upper management for doing a crappy job, do just enough to keep things semi-functional while lining their own pockets, and they completely ignore the will of the people who make it all possible (the fans)?
(FYI – This is not an invitation for a political debate, just a fun observation.)
Logan Burdine
November 9, 2012 at 3:32 PM (UTC -6)
I’m chalking a lot of this up to this to the ‘Rockies can do no right’ mentality. It says so right in your comments, ‘this would work for this or that organization, but this is the Rockies and they can’t do anything right’ — more or less.
This organization does things a little backwards. Tracy needs to go but we want to save face so let’s give him awful terms and force his hand. It’s weird, often annoying, but that doesn’t mean they screwed up hiring Walt Weiss. Beyond that, none of us really have a clue how Weiss will approach his job. I tried to relay some things I’ve been told about the guy from people I trust, but you can take it or leave it. I will say though, it’s easy to accuse him of being a Yes man, but that seems unfair, and I doubt that’s a question many would ask to his face.
If they had hired Runnells, I’d be very worried, but I see this as an indication that they want things to change. They are still a flawed team, obviously, but expectations are too low.
Logan Burdine
November 9, 2012 at 3:34 PM (UTC -6)
I often feel like DOD and Geivett are nothing more than politicians.
Jerry
November 9, 2012 at 4:18 PM (UTC -6)
Logan, add sycophants to your description. While I’m certainly not drinking the Kool-Aid that this is the key step for the Rox’s return to respectability and a .500 season, I’m more than willing to give Mr. Weiss time to see how he manages (1) the players, and (2) Geivett & DOD. Based on the multiple radio interviews I heard today, he comes across as humble, unpretentious, and plain-talking. And, I do like the pedigree in terms of the managers he’s played for. A good choice, I think, but I’m not yet committed to renewing the mini-plan tixs.
Kevin Jordan
November 9, 2012 at 4:43 PM (UTC -6)
Regardless of who they hired to manage, you shouldn’t renew tixs until O’Dowd is gone and the Rockies make some positive player acquisitions, particularly starting pitchers. Sticking with the team as currently built (now minus Moscoso and Roenicke, who basically cancel each other out), has 75-win potential at most, which would be a huge improvement over last year, but still a losing team. The sad thing is that 75 wins will be considered a success and we’ll be asked to believe “next year” (2014) will be the year.
My biggest problem with this is that Weiss is stuck between a rock and a hard place with the one year contract. If he pushes back on DOD and Geivett, it’s incredibly easy to fire him and promote Runnels. If he doesn’t push back, he’s going to be seen as a Yes Man. I hope for the best in Weiss, but he’s been dealt 2 cards in a five card game.
By the way, for those who didn’t believe me that the 2012 pitching experiment is truly dead, they’ve already rid themselves of 2 of the piggybackers (mentioned above), 3 if you count Carlos Torres.
Logan Burdine
November 10, 2012 at 8:12 AM (UTC -6)
Personally, I’ll be going to at least as many games as last year. It’s baseball guys! I’d go even if they lost all81 home games next year.
Steve
November 9, 2012 at 4:44 PM (UTC -6)
I have just read that Walt Weis will retain Tom Runnels as Bench Coach. Also Gievett says the pitching coach will remain Bo McLaughlin and Jim Wright will stay bull-pen coach. They are waiting for Giambi to decide about hitting coach. The last coaching issue is third base, apparently Weiss will have some input on that hire. I like Walt Weiss and I think he deserves a chance to succeed, but this looks pretty much like the some ole thing.
Pete
November 9, 2012 at 6:45 PM (UTC -6)
How are we supposed to believe Weiss is managing if he doesn’t even get to bring in his own staff?
This has disaster written all over it…. and I LIKE Walt Weiss.
Also has “interim manager” written all over it sometime next year.
TroyF
November 9, 2012 at 8:18 PM (UTC -6)
I will give Weiss time. I’ll try to be fair.
But am I happy with this? No. Not at all. There are so many things that stink about this, most of which have been listed above. I don’t care about the experience, but it’s really sad that this train wreck of a season didn’t result in mass changes. Instead, it’s just more of the same.
You’ll forgive me if I’m not real thrilled right now.
Logan Burdine
November 9, 2012 at 8:49 PM (UTC -6)
It’s too easy to pile on the Rockies right now. Let’s give this a chance before we write it off as a failure. All of these red flags are just speculation.
Logan Burdine
November 9, 2012 at 8:50 PM (UTC -6)
They obviously aren’t changing the front office structure, so you have to hope for the best within that context.
Jerry
November 10, 2012 at 7:07 AM (UTC -6)
The one-year deal also reduces the likelihood that players will whole-heartedly accept and embrace any new approaches and system Weiss tries to introduce (like “playing the game the right way” whatever that exactly means but I assume it’s playing for the TEAM and not for one’s own stats). Hey, if this guy’s a potential short-timer, why should they pay any attention? Let’s hope that Montfort has put the entire front office on a ‘one-year’ leash and should there be continued futility in 2013, he’ll FINALLY can the whole bunch. In that case, there won’t be contract monies to be paid to Weiss for the out-years. Again, cheap, cheap. I like the hire, but as mentioned in above posts, the front office already has placed obstacles in the path of Weiss’ success.